00:00:04: The Biorevolution podcast.

00:00:06: Your hosts,

00:00:07: Luise von Stechhoff

00:00:08: and Andreas Reuchler.

00:00:09: The BiOREVOLUTION Podcast welcome.

00:00:13: are you all ready for a new episode?

00:00:16: Hope so easy are you?

00:00:17: I am.

00:00:18: Last time we thought about having like a wizard thing our guests coming up from under the table.

00:00:27: But we come back to this idea, maybe.

00:00:29: We talked about shorts before right?

00:00:30: True true!

00:00:31: If you can start with...

00:00:32: Yes from Bench To Mick demystifying science our topic today and we have a guest And You do the kudos after I guess some quotes.

00:00:44: as always Let's

00:00:45: Start With Quotes then will introduce Chani.

00:00:50: So i Will start with reading A quote From Paul Nurse I think even Sir Paul Nurse.

00:00:57: Yeah, Nobel Prize winner molecular biologist who says better understanding of the natural world not only enhances all of us as human beings but can also be harnessed for the better good leading to improved health and quality of life.

00:01:12: so broad scope.

00:01:13: yeah

00:01:15: I brought one from Caroline Bertotzi, who just won the Nobel Prize in twenty-twenty two back then.

00:01:22: And she says your purpose as a scientist is not to achieve fame on money.

00:01:27: that it's not you're purpose.

00:01:28: those might be side effects and good for You.

00:01:31: That could Be wonderful For You but It Is a Side Effect!

00:01:36: The main goal is to make discoveries and give them to humanity.

00:01:42: And those discoveries, that knowledge stays with humanity long after you're

00:01:47: gone.".

00:01:47: This sounds

00:01:49: nice!

00:01:49: I love it!

00:01:52: Excellent, so Chandni let me introduce a little bit.

00:01:56: of our listeners will already know from your podcast Daily Dose Of Honest Science where we create beautiful videos.

00:02:06: It fits

00:02:07: to the quote by the way.

00:02:07: Exactly,

00:02:08: but you are

00:02:09: also a bench scientist too.

00:02:11: You actually bridge those two roles other than we do so.

00:02:15: I only talk about science.

00:02:17: i don't Do science anymore for quite a long time.

00:02:19: So you have let's say The best of both worlds maybe sometimes not the best, sometimes also experience.

00:02:26: Yeah?

00:02:27: Experience other parts.

00:02:28: you are a postdoc at LMU your podcast host or proteomics enthusiasts.

00:02:34: that's another thing we share.

00:02:35: yeah let's dive into that but not too deeply nor to our audience with two deep mass back talk.

00:02:43: I will make them convinced that proteomics is

00:02:46: so very nice having you on.

00:02:48: Thank you very much for giving me the invitation and I'm really happy.

00:02:51: It came from Munich to Frankfurt.

00:02:54: Very nice, having in person not remote as so many times And it's great.

00:03:00: LMU is a kind of magic place.

00:03:03: I think LMU together with some universities that have the most excellent clusters In Germany as i believe.

00:03:12: Is this

00:03:14: in air or water?

00:03:16: I guess it's Bavaria, in the beautiful landscape of Bavarria.

00:03:22: Oh yeah

00:03:22: possible

00:03:23: because we have the mountains and we also have Zugspitze around

00:03:27: the corner.

00:03:29: Science communication is something that EZ has been into for a long time now.

00:03:37: as a spectator so to speak from the sidelines and going to conferences, talking with scientists.

00:03:47: I again come across people who are not willing or capable of shaping their message in portions that let me frame it like digestible for the broader public.

00:04:04: And i believe we're right now also with the geopolitics surrounding us, where we urgently need exactly this.

00:04:14: Can you

00:04:15: solve it?

00:04:16: I

00:04:17: guess we can!

00:04:18: It just needs our scientists but also science communicators who have said that they want to do things differently... ...that we sit together and make this possible.

00:04:29: And i think its very important that these scientists go out.

00:04:33: as he has now mentioned some scientists feel a bit overwhelmed by this.

00:04:40: And I think the problem is everyone thinks if you're doing science communication, it must be video format but Science Communication can also block right?

00:04:51: You don't have to stand like me in front of mic and talk scientists, I feel like they don't want to break out of the bubble.

00:05:02: That's also a bit kind of problematic point here and kinda don't wanna engage with thoughts in general public you know?

00:05:12: If you work in CRISPR for instance, sometimes people are kind of scared because they only know like it's a gene scissor.

00:05:20: So if the cut out genes that I actually need what happens then to me?

00:05:24: You don't... ...if you communicate it and such away that they understand while we're not cutting out the gene that you necessarily need It.

00:05:31: just fixing something is wrong with your body which many clinical trials coming up now than this fear gets bit less.

00:05:40: And also the corona crisis, I think we made a big mistake.

00:05:44: not communicating much and or in the wrong way like all the experts back then was not really nicely done.

00:05:54: Yeah i would agree that there is a challenge in communicating science in a way...I think they're two hurdles.

00:06:01: one thing it's very complex so you need to communicate it somehow clearly and simply, but at the same time you need to also communicate that there is this complexity.

00:06:11: And then It's not black-and-white That There Is Grey in it?

00:06:14: I think The problem with public.

00:06:16: often they expect You always get This Black & White Answer Of course.

00:06:21: if that is your expectation Then you lose the trust.

00:06:25: So we had like an episode on Trust and Science and the erosion of trust

00:06:32: Maybe On Top.

00:06:33: It is also important that people understand when you have this gray zone area, which can be very grey to light grey or whatever.

00:06:45: current scientific consensus that we don't have a definite answer because we're expanding our knowledge.

00:06:52: And that can happen within the next two years, if you had different opinion or maybe in the next ten years and then to stay with data now?

00:07:00: This is something that kind of differs for many people.

00:07:03: also when I get into contact with some people who are not in science they like well i just want one answer right.

00:07:10: there's

00:07:10: no... There isn´t an answer.

00:07:12: this is a recurring element as well, because easy comes back time and again.

00:07:18: Well we as scientists do fail!

00:07:21: And there's an old image of scientists at least in Germany.

00:07:26: I think in Europe that they don't.

00:07:30: They always are the truth-tellers... Exactly.

00:07:33: ...and Godlike you know?

00:07:35: You have to repair this image

00:07:38: And I don't think it's only failure.

00:07:42: you can have, like depending on how you design the study.

00:08:04: You can have very different outcomes here and this is of course challenging for people to understand Like Is This Good For Me or Is That Not Good For me?

00:08:12: And then there's Of Course People Who Pick Out Certain Pieces of published science and blow them up like.

00:08:21: Increasingly so, yes.

00:08:22: Crazy!

00:08:23: And that is very difficult I think for people who...I think having this balance between really trying to get down to the facts and tell it as it was but also give us an element of uncertainty what you just said.

00:08:37: we're in a zone with dark grey or light grey.

00:08:42: During the time that I am in science or science communication, there have been so many new discoveries.

00:08:48: There is for example when i studied the micro RNA had just been found For The First Time.

00:08:53: So who knows what will be found In the next twenty years?

00:08:56: What Will Be In The Dark Genome For Example!

00:08:58: So there's much more to find and we think We Have To Acknowledge On One Hand That And on the other hand sometimes really go wrong.

00:09:09: I mean, we have very bad examples from the past where Darwinism was misinterpreted in a horrible way but also other pieces of science

00:09:17: if i can add.

00:09:18: The problem is also that We Sometimes Have Really Poor Conducted Research And That One Gets Also Kind Of Blown Up Or Is Even Misleading.

00:09:26: So There's This Famous Study About Autism Caused By Vaccines Which Is Completely Not True.

00:09:33: In Science We Have People Who Unfortunately Are not truth seekers.

00:09:38: They just want to have the publications out there, their citations be the next I don't know.

00:09:43: Nobel Prize winner and sometimes they fake data.

00:09:46: it is what Analyze the data in a way that it fits their narrative.

00:09:51: So we have kind of these black sheep and The problem is that sometimes they are so feeded into all the misinformation people You know, They get into that bubble.

00:10:02: And then you got this extra saying Yeah I knew it!

00:10:09: You were actually the one who told us That government is spying on those things.

00:10:16: And yeah, sure there is problems but it doesn't mean that we should distrust science because like me I'm an honest scientist.

00:10:25: I am standing at the bench and asking myself what this protein doing inside of cell?

00:10:41: Before you guys dig into science a little deeper i would have personal question Because in introduction You said We need science communication.

00:10:49: badly agree upon that, I think.

00:10:53: But what made you... What was your motivation of leaving the ivory tower?

00:10:58: Of science and say okay i look into the camera!

00:11:02: I do the science narrative for people who might have lost trust.

00:11:08: What was the initial point for you?

00:11:10: The initial points started when how Daily Dose of Honor Science actually started..I had a really shitty PhD.

00:11:17: It was as horrible.

00:11:18: As

00:11:19: many people do, I didn't but...

00:11:21: Many People Do?

00:11:22: It Was Horrible!

00:11:24: I talked about this on another episode of some other podcast.

00:11:28: it was so horrible that really left a mark on me and i was like okay do i leave academia or give it our second

00:11:35: chance?

00:11:35: yeah

00:11:36: That Deep.

00:11:37: And the first initial thought was i need to tell the public like science in academia is not ok.

00:11:43: So we Need To Give Like audience kind of the rough output here, what is happening behind the scenes.

00:11:50: But then I realized... You can do maybe two or three episodes and then no one will hear this because it's always been negative, you know.

00:11:58: So I thought its much more exciting to talk about the science that is made right now with people who are like innovators.

00:12:08: they're really at the front.

00:12:09: They discover so many cool new things That expand our horizon.

00:12:15: in any case Any subject.

00:12:18: And so far i've been that so many great conversations with people like.

00:12:25: i would have never met them and dad expanding your horizon even as a scientist makes me better scientists because I know what kind of field.

00:12:35: Other people are working in there, First of all, I want to learn what they are doing and make people excited about.

00:12:46: Oh cool science is really progressing even if it's a slow progress.

00:12:51: sometimes It's like a snail that is very slow But we have a progress.

00:12:56: If you look at the last twenty thirty years Like there's things That Have been science fiction back then And even artificial intelligence Is helping us so much Even though People Are saying It might be the doom for us, but you know if use it in a correct way I think its one of the biggest things.

00:13:15: And i want to take this veil off let's say skepticism and maybe even distrust... ...and tell people like..it is not that what people often times propagate!

00:13:27: Its actually much more beautiful.

00:13:28: so thats like the main thing that I wanna do.

00:13:32: To me very easy.

00:13:33: same question too?

00:13:35: a lot more about your path, obviously.

00:13:39: But your motivation too!

00:13:41: do podcasting to write, too.

00:13:43: Where did you start doing this?

00:13:46: I was always writing so long before i became a scientist and also realized while as a scientist that i'd rather talk about science than be at the bench!

00:13:58: So for me it's kind of like natural trajectory similar to you just love learning cool new stuff talking with people interacting being diving into new fields learning stuff, I think this is so cool.

00:14:13: Was it for you a little bit like the experience during the podcast almost a bit therapeutic after having negative experiences?

00:14:21: Totally

00:14:22: totally!

00:14:22: So that was really theropoietic in the sense that i became self-confident again.

00:14:28: The self confidence boosts that I got through this whole journey now Immensely precious for me that I was like, okay.

00:14:37: Don't want to give this up and i'm trying To juggle it around right?

00:14:41: It's not easy having a full-time position

00:14:43: of course

00:14:44: And doing science con.

00:14:46: besides that end on top sometimes Having these weird looks from outside people be like Where are you going?

00:14:55: I'm taking a podcast episode now.

00:14:57: Oh, okay!

00:14:58: Are your scientists

00:14:59: or journalists

00:15:00: exactly so?

00:15:01: are you actually at the bench or not?

00:15:04: how is it for your colleagues?

00:15:05: How do i mean?

00:15:06: You just said like we get sometimes weird looks but in general how did they regard this?

00:15:10: So Do They listen to their episodes and do they give you Give Your feedback?

00:15:13: do they want To be featured Like Featured?

00:15:16: Not I have some Colleagues who really liked on LinkedIn like The Posts And so On listen.

00:15:24: This I don't know, but i think maybe they listened to the trailer and if it's interesting then they listen like a little base of people who really liked it and also on YouTube, the comment section is filling slowly with good people.

00:16:00: So getting a crowd together that enjoys this kind of episodes.

00:16:05: Wonderful!

00:16:06: I do hope it will eventually be contagious within the science community because there are not enough of you guys of science communicators.

00:16:16: Yes, right?

00:16:17: It's a skill that you have to learn.

00:16:20: You know communicating your signs through your peers is something completely different.

00:16:24: so on conferences and presentations in the lab meeting... That's completely different.

00:16:29: because with whom are dealing?

00:16:31: but having like science slams or these kind of science rep even doesn't exist.

00:16:37: I learned there.

00:16:39: the audience is mixed.

00:16:40: some of them even don't remember what happened in school with biology, you know?

00:16:45: Like they completely forgot and it's completely okay.

00:16:48: Raise

00:16:48: my hand!

00:16:51: But we're getting the continuous education I do

00:16:54: exactly And i'm grateful for that.

00:16:55: Yes of

00:16:56: course.

00:16:56: So You have to deal With That and then...you Have To somehow break It down into such a way..that you think that The science....You are making A good service to the Science not Making it watering too Down but also Having the people on board and be like, okay now they learned something.

00:17:12: And now there are not so afraid anymore.

00:17:15: So that's the balance and not every one of us scientists is Eager to learn this skill even though I would say everyone has to learn This.

00:17:25: in the end science belongs to Everyone right?

00:17:27: So...

00:17:28: And i think Even when you're communicating To other scientists There's a lot You can take away from it.

00:17:32: because yeah, I mean having I don't know Fifty data heavy slides even if you're into the topic.

00:17:38: I mean, You can see it on conferences right?

00:17:40: i mean The moment where people start taking out their laptops looking at their phones like slowly Getting getting out to.

00:17:47: so i mean you notice Right that if you have If It's too many biographs your brain will Just

00:17:55: sometimes they also forget To tell a story.

00:17:57: yeah exactly

00:17:58: then the master and i'm still trying to master this telling a story and this is sometimes really difficult.

00:18:06: And I think one thing that many scientists, and I completely come from the background of course we have learned to disappear.

00:18:14: so you are disappearing behind your data?

00:18:16: Your data supposed tell the stories but if it's just making small jokes or something on stage

00:18:31: It's inappropriate.

00:18:32: Exactly, yeah I think scientists feel it is inappropriate and they are afraid that we will turn into marketing people.

00:18:38: Yeah But i think there isn't an authentic way to do it somewhere in the middle ground And this is really a discipline which we have to master.

00:18:47: There're few scientist who are innately good at these talks.

00:18:53: You're on stage now and there are many people.

00:18:56: And I don't think that means you have to be this kind of like a stage animal, but also do it in a more quiet way?

00:19:04: There's some people who are very dry...but funny.

00:19:08: Absolutely!

00:19:10: British understatement is wonderful.

00:19:13: Totally from the attention span that has been decreasing over time as well.

00:19:21: Why, people?

00:19:22: So why not taking your time with all the things?

00:19:26: and I think that's a big problem we have to tackle.

00:19:32: way of how I do it.

00:19:33: So as you see, the trailers are usually one minute long because i really want to give people an opportunity to listen and then decide if they wanna watch or not And not by twenty seconds of clickbait BS that is coming out.

00:19:48: It doesn't feel right especially when a scientist is presenting Because we're not presenting data in a clickbaily way Right?

00:19:56: It's not our nature.

00:20:00: Staying into this kind of true and honest way is the way forward.

00:20:05: And I see that by communicating also with other people, they have said we are so saturated over flooding of attention grabbing things, that it's really refreshing to see that someone takes their time.

00:20:22: And off course I will not go viral with all of this but at least i'm contributing to the discussion and one of my biggest inspiration is actually another podcast from Dr Mike The Checker Podcast.

00:20:35: he's also taking like a one-and-a-half two hours even sometimes three hours in the medical field, but he's taking his time and every viewer who is there really appreciates that.

00:20:50: So that it kind of my way off doing that with science and you know, science and medicine have become like this two different disciplines And I actually want to combine them together again back where this is leading to.

00:21:06: That's why I'm also trying to get like medical professionals on board and we talk about it because otherwise, It will be too science.

00:21:13: And then yeah there's this medical stuff but We don't touch it doesn't feel right Because in the Asian Greek times Medicine and science was one, you know?

00:21:23: And philosophy.

00:21:24: Exactly!

00:21:24: I don't know why this became so distinct separated...I have no idea why it has happened but i think we need to collaborate on this also more and more.

00:21:35: But sometimes people who just want not do it because medical professionals thinks they know everything and scientists vice versa.

00:21:45: There are quite a few doctors that research like Exactly,

00:21:51: but I think the way we scientists do research can complement them.

00:21:55: Yeah yeah of course.

00:21:56: so

00:21:57: this is like the barrier that you have to overcome because they are also doing like they have a practice right?

00:22:03: They need to see patients!

00:22:04: So how can they do research and patience at the same

00:22:08: time?!

00:22:10: task.

00:22:11: And we scientists, if you now go into translational medicine more in collaboration with the medical doctors I think that will be like the next huge advancement in therapies and maybe even curing diseases... You name it!

00:22:35: When it comes to what we did at the lab relatively similar background.

00:22:39: so i also back-in-the-days did proteomics.

00:22:42: I just told you on the train with the help of many my colleagues.

00:22:45: So if your now listening, Stephanie Rosa and Tanvi are many thanks for all our help!

00:22:49: And also everyone else when i fucked up the columns again.

00:22:56: Confessions by Luise.

00:22:59: Let's see where this is going...

00:23:01: No but so we actually in so far have not talked about Proneomics.

00:23:05: On This Podcast surprisingly talk a lot more genomic based methods, I think also because they're sometimes maybe considered a bit more advanced.

00:23:14: But could you maybe summarize very briefly why do we need proteomics?

00:23:19: What's the benefit of it?

00:23:20: I always like to start with saying all the things that are made inside the cell so from energy creation to packing our DNA too... That the cells even can adapt.

00:23:34: actually The workers are these proteins in ourselves either be something that needs to be transported, anything even an enzyme.

00:23:43: That does a little thing.

00:23:45: it's all proteins right?

00:23:47: And the cool thing is they once you understand how they work and what they do You can actually understand why in disease state They are different than in the healthy state.

00:23:58: I think proteomics like the science of proteins and analyzing proteins bridge between all the genetic and transcriptomic data that we have.

00:24:10: So, all the mRNA things to... The actual outcome because when you go back To the very basic of the monocular biology dogma is You have the DNA That it's getting transcribed so you have an mRNA And then from mRNAs you actually get a protein right?

00:24:27: Of course not every RNA Is translated into a protein but in general usually that kind of way Right!

00:24:36: The protein itself is super important for any function that we need inside the cell.

00:24:42: I think proteomics can highlight even in clinical settings what's different between healthy and disease or tumor tissue, whatever you want to see.

00:24:55: but i think thats a really cool intersection.

00:24:58: and of course proteomics itself divided into top down middle bottom up Top-down means you really take the molecule itself and introduce it to the mass spectrometer, and analyze in its entirety which is really difficult.

00:25:15: Or if say okay I just don't want a deal with this... ...I chop it off into small pieces called peptides And go from bottom up approach and try to map these pieces back again to sequence and figure out what kind of proteins i have.

00:25:31: Did that answer your question?

00:25:32: Okay, good.

00:25:34: You did perfectly.

00:25:36: Yeah no Ferdi I mean it's cool.

00:25:38: any wish for you to go back to the field?

00:25:41: Go Back To The Lab?

00:25:42: No i

00:25:42: asked her!

00:25:44: She did

00:25:44: right?!

00:25:45: I was like okay do you want?

00:25:47: and she said no not really.

00:25:51: Now I really enjoyed it.

00:25:52: then they had a great time...I'm one of those people who actually had fun during their PhD..i think very much on your supervisor and you're colleagues.

00:26:02: And I mean, also depends on your project but i think it mostly depends when your supervisor holds the PhD course.

00:26:06: so if you have a good one then at least better experience in most cases.

00:26:10: for now?

00:26:10: For me Im quite happy with three projects that are half.

00:26:14: So the first project is out of my PhD where I would like to characterize a protein that has been found at the Centromere.

00:26:21: The centromere biology super crucial because if you have any problems in there, You will get aneuploidy which means some DNA will break up And then you will lose that information.

00:26:34: That is kind of our one hallmark for cancer, so it's really important to study it and a great colleague of mine got Targaman actually did a great study in analyzing what was happening at the center man.

00:26:48: We figured out there are new proteins we would like to characterize.

00:26:51: right now I'm on final stages hopefully A second project that is more drug discovery, which I'm really excited about.

00:27:01: My boss actually has these knockout cell lines of different methotransferases and demetrolases in human cells And some of them are already clinical targets But we don't know what happens when they're not there anymore.

00:27:16: There i am trying to characterize from this standpoint What's happening?

00:27:21: And the third one is my actual own kind of research that I want to do because i'm really interested in prostranslational modifications.

00:27:29: So,I always say the protein's getting decorated so people can... Good

00:27:33: picture for this right?

00:27:35: Yeah!

00:27:35: One decoration is adding a sugar molecule or glycoslation and that sense.

00:27:40: That has been linked many diseases such as diabetes cancer whatever you name it neurodegenerative diseases mass spec method that we can enrich for that, not antibody based.

00:27:55: I want to get a bit away from antibodies and then make it robust at every lab-that for instance buys the kit...for instance..that can be built up from this actually can reliably do in their lab because sometimes you have the problem of translating into other labs right?

00:28:14: So someone lab but not I don't know across the pond you cannot do it for whatever reason.

00:28:21: so That is kind of like where I am and you know, i love the diversity.

00:28:26: I'm not...I hate when I have to work on only one thing it's more like- I want to be involved in many projects because there are so many cool things that you can do with proteomics.

00:28:36: Yeah!

00:28:36: It sounds like your having quite a range of things.

00:28:39: yeah.. I mean this glycoxylation was also quite interesting cause'it happens to lot of proteins right?

00:28:44: Quite large percentage of the proteins we got get this sugar coat kinda This sugar molecules can be very diverse.

00:28:52: They can branch in different ways and it's like, sugar is not sugar.

00:28:56: we have different types of sugars And this really adds.

00:28:59: so we have like twenty thousand genes and We have some more proteins.

00:29:05: how many proteins do

00:29:06: depends on which isoform we have, do you have isoformed one to five or presence?

00:29:12: So it can be like easily double the amount of forty.

00:29:15: Yeah exactly yeah that's what I would've said.

00:29:18: but then imagine all these different decorations of the protein.

00:29:22: so we easily end up in a range of i don't know a million something two hundred thousand something.

00:29:28: suddenly we have many more variation and this also leads back isn't everything the same, because almost all our cells have the same DNA.

00:29:38: So why are they also different?

00:29:40: lies in the magic of proteins and their post-translational modifications, which

00:29:45: is a pretty

00:29:46: cool thing to study.

00:29:48: And research granted for the next five hundred billion years?

00:29:51: Yeah!

00:29:52: The things also that from these modifications you find new ones constantly... Right.

00:29:56: ...and they interact with one another exactly.

00:29:58: so what has quite well established is phosphorylation.

00:30:03: They

00:30:03: cross talk each other but other modifications do also cross talk.

00:30:08: right one affect the other.

00:30:11: What does it have to do with, I don't know.

00:30:13: gene expression maybe?

00:30:15: Or sometimes its just putting on protein from one compartment to another right.

00:30:20: so we still are kind of in our infancies.

00:30:24: a really cool study published showed micro H-A involved.

00:30:30: the histone can exist as a macro H to A

00:30:34: variant

00:30:35: that is able of binding ADP ribosolation and this one has been shown.

00:30:43: if you knock it out in mouse, they have severe kidney.

00:30:49: This function for instance, so it links chromatin with metabolism and a phenotype inside these mice.

00:30:57: And they really could nicely show its science advance.

00:31:01: just recently came out from the Helmholtz in Munich that all shows us like genes and metabolism and protein.

00:31:09: kind of you know?

00:31:10: You cannot distinguish... You need to take into all into account as one unit and then figure out what's happening.

00:31:18: And that's why I love also the way my boss is working in chromatin

00:31:22: proteomics,

00:31:22: so i love this intersection of genes and proteins how they work with each other.

00:31:30: Metabolism is a big thing for

00:31:33: us!

00:31:33: For any type of drug discovery, metabolism can be a very big topic simply because we're doing bad things to our metabolism.

00:31:58: Regarding to that, so I think you have a lot of episodes where you discuss... That's why also called the episode demystifying science.

00:32:06: Where we talk little bit about this science of self-improvement let call it like nutrigenomics sleep patterns types exercise nutrition etc.

00:32:17: with your guests or sometimes by yourself.

00:32:20: Why are you so interested in that?

00:32:23: Or why do you think this is like, yeah relevant to tackle?

00:32:27: first

00:32:27: of all because it's my own interest.

00:32:29: I find the super fascinating how nutrition actually plays a big role diet sleeping In general influencing our body itself and how we actually function right.

00:32:42: but then Due to my presence on social media, I see how many people are actually getting that into the wrong direction in this very toxic self-improvement thing.

00:32:53: it's not really backed up by science in that sense.

00:32:57: Supplements or

00:32:58: supplements?

00:33:00: We're constantly talking about the nonsense of supplements!

00:33:05: Most stuff you can get if you do it properly, from your diet so you don't need to supplement and... If you have a deficiency for whatever reason because we've got health issues which is completely another story.

00:33:20: but I think The problem is that many times people get like, as we said it's really important that scientists give this gray thing.

00:33:30: But these people who sell supplements and all of those they present black-and-white and ignore most of the studies that actually show what they want to present.

00:33:41: And then it gets in this wrong direction, I'm like... ...I wanna give people an opportunity.. ..to give them a chance to understand properly so they don't get into the trap for these people!

00:33:54: It's really hard because big... ...and refugerman is one unfortunately, peteratia as well you know?

00:34:01: They make such way that sounds science-y.

00:34:05: But the problem is it's not backed up and they are honest enough with their audience that this actually isn't true.

00:34:12: what they're selling.

00:34:13: And, how can you compete as a little scientist?

00:34:19: And that's why I try to team up with different people.

00:34:47: The nutrients and so on.

00:34:49: And then, the other one was the biological clocks.

00:34:53: I'm like we are not really there but okay So you know these kind of problems that occur during this black-and white conversation That people give.

00:35:04: i give to people in the grey area.

00:35:06: Tell them This is science!

00:35:07: This what they're doing.

00:35:12: Awesomely done.

00:35:13: This is like not the true value that you would get by buying this supplement and yesterday I just saw one, but i think that we will find very funny.

00:35:22: it's three hundred fifty euros And its a device That You can put into your toilet to pee on It and then give you like twenty five biomarkers On Your phone and be Like okay this your pH Is up or your I don't know Calcium.

00:35:40: It triggered me yesterday so much that I needed to write a comment below it, because usually i watch this person kind of often.

00:35:49: And be like if you next time need someone who really gives your perspective please call or email me.

00:35:56: Stop the BS!

00:35:58: Yeah no he was not propagating his more testing out.

00:36:02: He's a high tech gadget tester.

00:36:04: You know Alexi Bexie in German?

00:36:08: And there was few comments down, they were saying well I would have appreciated if a doctor had been here.

00:36:14: You know and then i'm like okay at least the scientist can tell you this is PS or not?

00:36:20: So yeah that's main reason why it's important to tell people about this.

00:36:26: Supplements in best case most of them just don't work so cost money.

00:36:31: In worst cases are not very great for your liver & kidney depending on what else and how many of those you take, I would say that's.

00:36:39: but then for these tracking metrics.

00:36:42: There are a lot of people who do glucose monitoring any other type And also this I found it really interesting in the sleep episode That you did... For some people This can actually switch to the other side.

00:36:55: If you track your sleep obsessively You cannot sleep anymore.

00:36:58: i think for me that will happen.

00:37:04: If you have periods where you sleep badly, You're already anxious.

00:37:07: And then if your phone constantly tells you... ...you should be anxious because you are not sleeping Then I don't know.

00:37:13: this

00:37:13: is very helpful.

00:37:14: That's why i love the episode Because Ellie was telling that they actually developing an app.. ..that really helps people based on real science, right?

00:37:24: They really try to back it up with science.

00:37:27: With clinical trials and really gives like an improvement protocol what you can do to get a better.

00:37:33: because Right now And as he said the problem is these apps they don't Really provide value in.

00:37:41: What Can I Do Different?

00:37:45: And that's even though sometimes I find this very interesting, people say.

00:37:49: I feel very refreshed to actually fine and then they look at the phone and be like

00:37:55: should have been worried about

00:37:57: you know?

00:37:57: You're not fine action.

00:38:00: Yeah exactly.

00:38:01: Exactly.

00:38:02: And then i think that creates an anxiety.

00:38:05: yeah That shouldn't be there

00:38:08: And even a disconnect, I think from your own body.

00:38:11: Because many things are old.

00:38:12: so in general modern life is creating a bit of a disconnect because we're having many things that may not be healthy like very high productivity look at screens alot maybe don't do the thing which should naturally do.

00:38:28: but i also feel these reliance on tracking and also reliance external things like vitamin can really mess up your feeling for what would be the right thing.

00:38:40: For example, to eat or when are you tired?

00:38:43: Or something because our bodies for many centuries have told us kind of and I mean this is not just say we're biological beings.

00:38:51: so there were far from perfect where one possible version of many many possible versions.

00:38:58: but i think still I mean, that sounds a little bit like grandmother-ish but some sense in connecting with yourself.

00:39:07: In a way to listen a little too yourself what you're body is really telling more than listening to the smart toilet.

00:39:15: and then people are also so often they hear of all these things trying to fix thing's not broken by them breaking

00:39:24: absolutely

00:39:25: getting Peptide injections that are untested.

00:39:29: I mean and one real big problem with all these supplement stories is That they are not drugs, so they don't need to undergo testing.

00:39:36: So even if what's on paper in it?

00:39:39: Is not harmful What's in it in reality might be actually quite different from

00:39:43: sometimes It's not even that in there.

00:39:46: yeah right absolutely

00:40:05: quick elephants in the room.

00:40:07: Elephant number one when are you going to quit science?

00:40:11: because You said that you are not an influencer yet.

00:40:17: You didn't go viral, yet?

00:40:21: And I think we clearly worked out that we need science communications big time in our age and time.

00:40:30: so when're going to quit?

00:40:31: never

00:40:31: all right elephant.

00:40:33: the room number two When Are We Going To Cure?

00:40:37: The Mets Were In Right Now in a really holistic societal sense that we are poisoned by.

00:40:45: the ten-second snippets were surrounded.

00:40:48: And there's no way to put signs into ten seconds, of course it is not and We're fortunate enough be on podcasts where this only long format people willing to kind of digest.

00:41:02: so at right place.

00:41:04: but do you see any movement, any from your feedback.

00:41:11: You're getting that people at some point.

00:41:15: will a phrase it like I want to phrase and come through the senses again?

00:41:19: I think the problem is that we have right now as this A lot of people are creating these shorts and not letting science come into place.

00:41:29: But I think, depending on which signs communicate our scientists you look at many of them actually really want to give value to the topic And that's why they take a bit more time To make two three even four minutes off Science.

00:41:45: but Of course it is not enough for whole topic right?

00:41:49: So First of all, it was a reel that I saw on the CEO's Instagram.

00:41:54: He was like yeah if you want to be seen in real then you need hook and this or that... And than i was brave enough to write under his comment section.

00:42:05: well how about increasing tension span not having click baity titles and clickbait hooks that actually mislead people?

00:42:15: Funny enough one person really resonated with that with you a hundred percent.

00:42:20: So I got one person at least,

00:42:23: well that's the beginning right?

00:42:25: One at a time

00:42:26: and i think what my content it called Daily Dose of Honest Science but if you look at it its not daily in that sense But It will gradually become daily because I would create content That At some point You can fill up A whole year With it.

00:42:40: beautiful!

00:42:40: You know And that is The main purpose And I think it's going into the direction, but it needs us who really give like this perspective and tell people you need to take your time.

00:42:54: It is not a show in ProSieben or something that has just silly things coming up – its serious business!

00:43:02: If you want have the best informed decision also for health sometimes... You NEED TO TAKE YOUR TIME AND YOU NEED to also appreciate.

00:43:12: This is a lot of work, what we are doing.

00:43:14: Right?

00:43:15: You're editing taking care off everything here and behind the scenes.

00:43:19: people mostly don't get it right but there's A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES AND IT'S YOUR OWN MONEY RIGHT THAT YOU'RE PUTTING IN

00:43:27: ABSOLUTELY!

00:43:28: And me as well.

00:43:29: I'm doing this in my spare time to provide the most biggest value and i think if people understand THIS then they start to appreciate

00:43:40: it.

00:43:41: we sometimes underestimate the intelligence of people.

00:43:45: I think that in general society breaks everything down to this short attention span.

00:43:51: and two like very simple messages, And i think most people are much smarter than them more capable thinking through ideas.

00:44:00: It also helps your brain In general right?

00:44:03: So if you think about a complex issue You have to think about it even more, and actually that gives you a satisfaction.

00:44:13: I think it's something people have to relearn because they get everything in bite sizes which is not okay but also important for giving the opportunity to juggle around with complex terms Some terms in science, you cannot just replace it by every day term or something.

00:44:37: It's not possible

00:44:39: enough

00:44:40: and I would say that this is super important to give the people the opportunity to learn this time and use it right?

00:44:50: What an ideal public would be appreciating the science and understanding.

00:44:56: if a scientist is standing in front of you, juggles around with some terms.

00:45:01: You'll be like I know what you're talking about!

00:45:04: We achieved that to an extent during Corona Pandemic.

00:45:07: People suddenly understood things and terms they didn't understand before... And this could also be much more possible for other parts of Science Communication.

00:45:16: I would say communication from medical profession a translation gap in what disease do I have and what does that actually

00:45:26: mean.

00:45:26: Exactly,

00:45:27: yeah.

00:45:28: Easy talking about attention span?

00:45:29: Yeah!

00:45:30: I think we used a lot of time out all listeners.

00:45:37: This was the Biorevolution podcast.

00:45:39: Many thanks for listening!

00:45:40: I hope you will subscribe to our podcast and guest podcasts, of course everything related to this will be in our liner notes.

00:45:50: You can look up everything at www.ScienceTales.com.

00:45:55: We are looking forward your feedback.

00:45:58: many thank you.

00:45:59: so much for listening.

00:46:01: Thank-you for the invitation.